Creativity • Andrew Maxfield

Summary:

You have a superpower, the ability to imagine completely different circumstances than what reality provides. Take a moment to look around; just about everything you see came from the fruits of someone’s creativity. You have the same power, even if you don’t think you do.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to expand and explore your creativity and our guide will be Andrew Maxfield—composer, entrepreneur, and idea factory. He’s the most deliberately creative person I know and an excellent teacher.

About Our Guest:

Andrew studied music at Brigham Young University, where he was valedictorian and where he occasionally teaches. He has pursued advanced studies in counterpoint and harmony at the EAMA–Nadia Boulanger Institute in Paris, France, graduate composition studies at Boston Conservatory at Berklee, and doctoral studies at the University of Bristol (UK). His primary teachers include Philip Lasser (Juilliard), John Pickard, Jonathan Bailey Holland, and Marti Epstein, and he has also studied with Aaron Jay Kernis and Steven Sametz through the ACDA Choral Composers Forum. He also holds an MBA in Arts Administration from the University of Wisconsin–Madison.

Andrew lives with his wife Liz Davis Maxfield—a professional cellist, expert in Irish traditional music, and rock climber—and their two handsome, high-octane boys (plus a hyper puppy) just downhill from Sundance in Provo, Utah.

Below are some of Andrew’s recent commissions, accomplishments, and those playing his music.

The compositions of ANDREW MAXFIELD—hailed as “rhythmically vital … superbly judged … [and] tender” by Fanfare Magazine—have been performed throughout the U.S. and Europe. A recent winner of the King’s Singer’s New Music Prize (Jury Special Commendation), Andrew has been a Composer Fellow of the National Collegiate Choral Organization and Composer-in-Residence for Newburyport Choral Society. Recent commissions include choral works for the Barlow Endowment for Music Composition, Hillsdale College, and Salem Hills High School; an orchestral adaptation of the Caldecott honor book, They All Saw A Cat, for the Center for Latter-day Saint Arts in New York City; and a concert-length score for SALT Contemporary Dance, showcased at Lincoln Center. His album, Celebrating Wendell Berry in Music, was released by Tantara Records and his “well-crafted, approachable” works (Dr. George Case, The Boston Cecilia) are published by Walton, Santa Barbara, and Yalecrest. Ensembles which have performed Andrew’s music recently include USC Thornton Chamber Singers, Emporia Symphony Orchestra, Carroll University Symphonic Band and Choir, Wingate University Singers, Utah Philharmonic, The Piedmont Singers, University of Pennsylvania Chamber Choir, and Choral Arts Initiative.

Useful Links:

Andrew’s website

The Door Virtually performed by Nightingale Vocal Ensemble. “The Door” is the final piece in trUSt: A Collaboration with Andrew Maxfield. April 19, 2021

The Singing Bowl Virtually performed by Nightingale Vocal Ensemble. “The Singing Bowl” is the third piece in trUSt: A Collaboration with Andrew Maxfield. April 16, 2021

The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron

Old Masters and Young Geniuses by David Galenson

Wendell Berry He was born August 5, 1934, in Henry County, Kentucky where he now lives on a farm. The New York Times has called Berry the “prophet of rural America.” 

Danny Myer Always be collecting dots.

Stephen Covey Sharpen the saw.

Pleasant Pictures Music:

Join the Pleasant Pictures Music Club to get unlimited access to high-quality, royalty-free music for all of your projects. Use the discount code HOWTOHELP15 for 15% off your first year.

About Merit Leadership

To learn more about the ethics learning resources Merit Leadership has to offer, visit our website:

http://meritleadership.com

Transcript

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I once told a music friend,

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that I wanted to be like an optimistic version of Randy Newman.

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And he said, well, that's a good idea, but I don't think there's such a thing.

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I'm Aaron Miller, and this is How to

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Help, a podcast about having a life and career of meaning, virtue, and impact.

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This is season one, episode seven.

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Creativity, How to Help is sponsored by Merit Leadership, home of

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The Business Ethics Field Guide.

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So here's something that's a little disappointing.

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Don't think that they're creative, only 28% think that they're very creative and

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the rest about half of the country only consider themselves somewhat creative.

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This is a problem.

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You and I, all of us, we constantly rely on each other's

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creativity without enough of it.

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We're left to pretty terrible circumstances.

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Am I being too dramatic maybe, but I don't think so.

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Let me show you why wherever you are right now, take a look around you.

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I guarantee you are surrounded by the fruits of someone's creativity.

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It might be the car that you're driving in the photo that's on your wall, the

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clothes you're wearing, or even just the device that's playing this podcast.

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And each of those examples of the creative work of thousands of

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people made it possible humanity at a fundamental level thrives.

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On our creating things or ideas that did not exist before I knew I wanted

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to do an episode on creativity.

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So I turned to a friend who is one of the most deliberately creative people.

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I know his name is Andrew Maxfield, and he's a composer, mostly of choral music.

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And he's trained at some of the most elite institutions in the world.

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You'll hear some of his music in this episode.

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But his creativity portfolio spills into all kinds of other things like business,

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he has an MBA, education, non-profits, theater, and well, the list goes on.

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So with Andrew, let's begin at the beginning, I asked him to tell me

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about where his creativity started.

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I'm the son of a dad, entrepreneur,

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and a mom who is a flute teacher.

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And I feel like I got half of my brain from each of them.

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It's sort of a strange mix.

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Like part of my brain is spreadsheets and business plans.

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And part of my brain is colors and sounds and crazy artsy stuff.

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And I don't know when that first, which parts clicked in when, but I do remember

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when I was really little kid, probably just after I'd started piano lessons

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when I was five or something like that, lying on my stomach on the the

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carpet floor in my parents' apartment.

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And my mom had given me a blank sheet of music, staff paper.

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And I was composing, you know, I had no idea what that meant, but I was just sort

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of drawing, drawing circles and lines.

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And then I asked her to play my composition for me.

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And she obliged and I don't know,

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was it good?

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Was it bad?

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Was it silly?

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Of course all of those things, but the thing about an experience like

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that and the memory of it is that.

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I feel like kids especially are effortlessly creative.

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They don't question the creative impulse.

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You don't stop and say, oh, well, you know, have I been adequately trained?

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Do I have the technique of an artist?

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Is there a big plan in mind for this?

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They're just sort of filling the world with their creations.

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I think until schools run by grownups, basically beat that out of them.

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Just imagine being effortlessly creative.

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If you're not that way now you almost certainly used to be.

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Our capacity for creativity is a lot stronger than we may believe.

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And that's because creative thinking is really a natural part of who we are.

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We limit ourselves through habit through belief.

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In fact, research shows that once we get past providing for our

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basic needs, our minds are actually wired to wander and explore.

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There was a time in your life when you got excited about far out

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ideas like this one of Andrew's.

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In addition to having those

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kinds of early feelings of making music or creating stuff.

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When I was a little kid.

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Like I said, I had, you know, half my brain was from my entrepreneurial dad and

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half my brain was from my flute teacher, mom, and I didn't just come up with song.

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I also thought, oh, well this is the.

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The group that would perform it.

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And this is what the album would look like.

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And I don't know what other 11 year olds were doing with their discretionary

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time, but I was dreaming up album covers.

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And I mean, it's kind of dorky to say now, but you know, like the

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Carmen San Diego TV show that had the Rockapella group that was singing

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on it, I thought, wow, Rockapella.

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Now that is cool stuff.

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I can imagine.

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A group like that, singing my music.

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And this is what the album cover looks like.

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I just have to reflect for a moment

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that I find it completely awesome.

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That Rockapella is part of your creative journey.

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Now Andrew never produced an album with Rockapella.

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Although if I pointed this out, he would probably say not yet.

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He might hear this story and consider as daydreaming to be a wasted effort,

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but this reflects another common misconception about creativity.

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That creativity is somehow a trade-off with other abilities, like planning

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or hard work, meaning you can't be a good planner or a hard worker.

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If you're also a creative person, the truth is that creativity and our

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other skills, they all work together, but they each need room to work.

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Andrew thinks of it is wearing different hats at different times.

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I feel like I learned a great lesson from a college professor of mine

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who was kind of an unconventional.

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Professor.

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He had had a career in commercial music who was a terrific electric

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bass player, but also had been a successful studio owner business guy.

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And he liked the metaphor of wearing different hats.

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And in this case it was, he was referring to the song writing process.

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And you said that, you know, there's a time for the madman

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where you wear the madman hat.

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That's just pure creativity with no purpose of direction in mind.

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And then you might wear an editor hat where you're getting a little bit

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more critical of what you've created.

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And then there's this poet hat where you're trying to give

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it a finesse and a fine touch.

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There's these different sort of times.

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And do you need a different.

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Outlook for each of those times.

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And I think it's true generally for my business hat and my composer artist hat.

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It's hard to wear both at the same time.

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So I tried to give each its turn.

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Because it's impossible to force

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new ideas out of our brains.

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What we have to do is find ways of providing fertile ground so they can

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spring up in her book, The Artist's Way.

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Julia Cameron teaches us that we're more creative when we

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have habits that encourage it.

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Here's how Andrew describes his creative habits.

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Yeah.

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When I call it my morning routine and it's true, it's not easy to do.

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And I want to say today, you know, have a, a hundred percent

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follow through rate here.

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I've got a five-year-old and a seven-year-old who sometimes

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wake up early and all the rest.

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But, but my morning routine, when, when I, when I pull it off, I get

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up at five and it's a quiet time of day and my mind tends to be fresh.

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And I'll usually spend a couple of minutes in sacred texts,

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just sort of centering myself.

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And then I'll spend a couple of minutes doing a free write,

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a long hand, free write.

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I have a clipboard that has a thick stack of blank.

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Copy paper on it.

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And.

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A jar full of mechanical pencils, and I just let it rip.

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Oh, I also have a favorite fountain pen.

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Sometimes I write with my favorite fountain pen, but there's really no

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point or purpose to this activity other than sort of clearing out the cobwebs

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and finding my own kind of quiet center.

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So sometimes, you know, worries that I have find their ways onto the page.

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Sometimes puzzles, I'm trying to solve a business creative.

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Sometimes it's just laundry lists of stuff that I remember that I

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need to do find, find their way into the margins of the pages.

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It's a practice.

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I did not invent it.

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I found it in a book called The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron,

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which I highly we recommend.

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But the purpose of that routine so far is.

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Really just sort of working on me and in some sense, it's kind of attending

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to my inner compass or my inner ear, uh, more than it is trying to make anything.

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In fact, it's specifically not trying to make anything.

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It's just working on the, the flow and then I'm a pianist and I, I play

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a little bit of Bach in the mornings.

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When the routine is going well, and again, you know, that's, and that's

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something that I picked up from the cellist Pablo Casals, you've said that

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playing Bach in the mornings is like pronouncing a benediction on the day.

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And these things are, not me making stuff.

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It's me sort of ordering the chaos within me.

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So I feel like I'm ready to make things, but then somewhere along

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the line, then I, I do pivot.

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Into making things.

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And it's usually because somewhere in that morning practice, I, I find

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the thing that I'm ready to work on or the thing that's calling it out.

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That's kind of saying, Hey, it's time for me.

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Or something like that.

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Notice how Andrew's habits include

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more than just quiet contemplation.

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They involve all kinds of thinking and action.

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And they also involve tools.

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So another excellent book on creativity was written surprisingly by a Chicago

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economist named David Galenson although the core message of his book is

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how some creative achievements come quickly while this might take decades.

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What's most fascinating to me about his observations is how deeply rooted

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creativity is and the tools that we use.

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Whether it's from the young geniuses who break molds or from the old

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masters who hone their craft over years and years, pretty much all

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breakthrough creativity involves an intimate relationship with tools.

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I have some things that I would

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call just, you know, sharpening the saw to sort of diagonally part

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of a phrase from Stephen Covey.

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But for me, these are things that I think of as.

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Maybe artistic, yoga, musical yoga.

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This is me working with my core muscles.

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So sometimes things doing rhythmic studies.

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I recently bought a Cahone, but a sort of box shaped drum that people

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associate with flamenco music.

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And I sit on it and they play it for a couple of minutes or play three pieces

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that are new to me, or I sit there and think through chord progression.

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I don't know.

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It's hard to explain exactly what it is exactly, but it, but it's sort of

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what I think of is sharpening the saw.

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So if the morning routine is more about sort of like cultivating an inner

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awareness and readiness, then this is more like active skill-building.

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What are your creative tools when your

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mind wanders what's in his backpack, these tools don't have to be paint, or pianos.

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I mean, as silly as this sounds, your creative tools might be

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PowerPoint or, or even Excel.

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The point is that simply tinkering with these tools is a creative habit.

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And by the way, so is sitting still or wandering around.

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But like I noted before.

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Once our minds have provided for our basic needs.

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They really like to explore.

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It's a tragedy that we've come to see something like daydreaming as a waste.

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It's actually an incredibly unique thing.

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I mean, think about it.

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You have this ability to imagine completely different circumstances

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than what reality has provided to you.

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Think of what you can do with that.

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It's like a super power.

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Like Andrew explains.

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You have to give your mind space to wander.

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If you saw me sitting in an office and I was

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staring out the window and sketching, you might think, what is that guy doing?

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We're not paying you to stare out a window and sketch, and then you.

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Go to your favorite podcast program that you listened to that guy being

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interviewed on a podcast about creativity.

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And it turns out that creativity, I think depends largely on having

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unstructured transition times where he can let your imagination wander.

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So I think that we, I think most corporate settings anyway, systematically

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eliminate opportunities for individuals to practice creative practices, not

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intentionally, but it's just, it's sort of a byproduct of our work obsessed

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culture, where if you don't feel like you're going to die because you're working

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so hard, you're not actually working.

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But letting your mind wander.

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Isn't just about having time to stare out of a window.

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Creative practices like Andrew described are actually quite deliberate

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and they require making space.

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Here's how he finds the space.

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He needs to be prepared for creativity.

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I like transitions.

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I like the interstitial time.

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I like periods of aimlessness and boredom.

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And what I'm, what I mean by that is it's the time, you know, it's while you're

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in the shower and you're just standing there because the water is warm or it's

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the walk between the house and the bus stop it's while you're waiting for your

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kids to get off the school bus, it's all these kind of in-between moments.

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And I feel like we have a scheduling tendency to fill our schedules up with the

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big meetings and calls and to do those.

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And then you look at a schedule that just gets the chalk, you know, kind of blocked

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up full, but I feel like creativity is oftentimes sort of this subconscious

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accidental connecting of dots that we didn't realize could be connected.

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And they oftentimes have capped off at times, I think happens

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in moments of transition.

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It probably feels harder than ever to give them an engaging

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People overwhelmingly love it because it's engaging, it deepens relationships,

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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and it develops practical skills that people use at work every day.

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To learn more, click on the link in the show notes or visit meritleadership.com.

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For me, one of the most vexing things is that almost all of my

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new ideas look brilliant at first.

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I mean, they look amazing, but that's before reality has to say it's a small

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fraction of my ideas that actually turn out into something worthwhile.

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How do you sort through the good ideas from the bad?

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I asked Andrew about this and his perspective was eye opening.

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I think over time, I've tried to stop thinking.

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In terms of good idea, bad idea, because realistically I think the way that

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life unfolds is that every day you have some time to do stuff and then you have

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a menu of things that you could do.

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And typically the menu is larger than what you have minutes for.

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And so the way I think the way I think about good idea, bad idea is I fill my.

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My hopper with ideas and then periodically, I mean, I don't do

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this every morning or something like this, but periodically I look

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at the stuff that I've accumulated and I just kind of ponder on it, I

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think, oh, which one is the now idea?

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Which one is ready to plant?

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You know which one it goes somewhere.

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So I usually don't find myself in the position of saying, wow,

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I have time to be creative.

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What on earth should I do?

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I, you know, usually I say, oh, I've got some time.

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We'll show you these things.

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Is ready to be attended to.

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I love that idea.

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I love the way you described it as a now idea.

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It's not a good idea or a bad idea.

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It's just a now idea or a not now idea.

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Yeah.

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And let's be clear.

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I come up with plenty of ideas that maybe never ideas and I'm okay with that.

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I say never ideas, but I mean, really

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they're just all not now ideas, right.

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Because who knows what the future will hold.

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And I think you're right.

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We have an instinct to make things right or wrong.

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But when it comes to creativity, that feels like a, anytime you call an idea

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wrong, you're always making fundamentally a premature evaluation of it because

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who knows what the future holds.

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Well.

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Yeah.

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And who's to say, I think what you're doing inadvertently is you're

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judging yourself as the ideator as being wrong-headed and that

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messes with your flow of ideas.

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If instead, you just look at it and say, Hmm, is this the one for today?

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All right.

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Maybe it'll be next week.

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I heard an entrepreneur wants to say that in order to afford, to

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have a successful startup amidst the improbability of actually having a

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successful startup, you need the right people, the right ideas, and the right

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money at the right price, so to speak.

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And I feel like there's something like that to a creative practice where you

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need the constant supply of potential ideas, and then you need a healthy.

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Creator, and if you can kind of keep that flowing, then the things

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will come of it, even if you can't predict exactly which one and when.

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And this brings us to the hardest

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part, creative ideas love to stay that way has just ideas, not something in

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reality, getting these ideas out of our heads and into the real world.

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Is one of the hardest and most amazing things we can do as human beings.

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Once upon a time, you and I had a conversation

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and you shared a phrase that stuck with me that I've used repeatedly since, and it's

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the phrase, wrestle it into existence.

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There's a thought that ideas are out there, but that's all they are until,

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until somebody actually grabs one and pulls it into the real world.

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But that pulling is a wrestle.

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It's not an easy process.

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Can you explain that a little more?

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What it's like for you to wrestle an idea into existence?

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You know, when I say wrestle into existence,

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I think at some level, I'm just trying to give a name to my one and only skillset

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because you know, you, you talk about being creative in different disciplines.

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And I feel like at the end of the day, just about the only thing I'm good at is.

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Identifying something that could happen and then, you know, beating my head

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against the wall until it does happen.

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Well, if that really is your only skill, that's

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a pretty good one and you're good at it.

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So I, yeah, I guess wrestling things

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into existence, but I, you know, I'm looking at a window over the Boston

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skyline right now, and there are some very tall buildings stick up into the

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skyline and those weren't always there.

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You can imagine a skyline that does not have those buildings in it.

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And at some point somebody was staring at that skyline and said, huh, I bet

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there could be something right there.

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And maybe it would be tall and maybe it would be covered in glass.

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It doesn't exist now, but it could.

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And then, you know, 10,000 conversations later and 10,000 drafts of blueprints

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later, and you have excavators digging a hole for the foundation of that thing

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that doesn't yet exist, but could there's.

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So when I talk about wrestling things into existence, I guess I'm talking

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about sniffing out my ideas and looking for one that just seems to click.

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Where it's kind of the right idea for the right time.

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It seems to have the right connections to, you know, whomever is involved.

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I feel like I can see a long arc from just the, the idea of it through

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conversations that I'd need to have through the blueprint, so to speak

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that would need to be created in order to get everybody to believe.

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That this thing ought to exist to the point that it does, it does exist.

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And you know, no two processes these are the same, but I feel

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like there's a certain train.

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You've probably been noticing that there

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are patterns involved when it comes to creativity and maybe we could call it a

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recipe or at least a set of ingredients.

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Essentially.

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It's a process of bringing stuff and people together to make something new.

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I asked Andrew to kind of explain the pattern as he saw it.

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Danny Meyer.

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Who's a well known New York restaurant or hospitality.

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Super guru has this ABCD phrase, which is always be collecting dots so that

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you can always be connecting dots.

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So one of my, one of my habits, one of the things that I do is that I

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am that I am always collecting dots.

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I love striking up conversations with strangers.

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Again, my wife thinks it's kind of weird, but just the other day I was

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getting on a bus in Boston, which of course is a fascinating place

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to live because it's full of people doing crazy interesting thing.

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And this guy sits down next to me, kind of older, older gentleman

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and asked him what he was up to.

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And he said, oh, well, I've just published my latest paper on the nature of light.

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And that's an interesting conversation starter.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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Tell me more, the result of doing these kinds of things is collecting dots

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or sitting down in a library in the periodical section and picking up five

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magazines and saying, well, I'm going to read one articles from you should be, I

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don't know anything about woodworking.

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Okay, or motorcycle that's when I figured out the Billy Joel owns a motorcycle

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shop in long island, that's kind of cool.

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So there's this idea of always be collecting that so that you

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can always be connecting dots.

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Andrew later pointed out to me

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that as a composer, he's not just connecting metaphorical dots.

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I mean, he's literally connecting dots on pieces of paper all day.

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Now I will say if there's a problem with this analogy of connecting dots, it's that

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this sounds like a casual sort of thing.

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Like something you could do taking a shower or enjoying your lunch.

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Creativity is hard work.

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It's a wrestle like we discussed earlier to give an example of this.

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I asked Andrew to tell me about one of his favorite projects.

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This is a choral album that he wrote and produced based on

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the poetry of Wendell Berry.

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When I was an undergrad music major, I had,

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by that point, been reading the poetry and essays and some of the longer form

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fiction by an author named Wendell Berry.

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Who's a octogenarian, Kentucky and writer, and he's sort of like a

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grandfather of the slow food movement.

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One of my literary heroes and after spending quite a bit of time with

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his poetry, simply because I liked it, I looked at it on the patient.

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I thought, good grief.

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This sounds like choral music.

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Somebody said, write that down.

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I'm not the first person to have thought that, but isn't so clever,

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but I, I looked at it and I thought, maybe I'll write that down.

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And so I spent time in the margins over a couple of years, actually writing

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choral music to my ears sounded the way that Wendell Berry's poetry sounded.

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I along the way I hatched the idea, I thought, oh, I wonder if people who like

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reading Wendell Berry's books would read, like listening to an album of music with

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his poems as the text for the music.

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So I figured out how to meet Wendell Berry's publisher and ask for permission

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and guidance and started corresponding with Wendell Berry through long hand

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snail mail, which is how he does it.

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And.

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I just kept collecting dots along the way.

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And ultimately, I thought, I wonder if Mr.

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Barry would be willing to be recorded reading his poetry

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and that could be on my album.

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And so I asked and eventually found myself in a rental car in rural Kentucky, pulling

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up in front of his house with a field recorder in my backpack, time passes.

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And ultimately I sold a couple thousand albums of choral music

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that also included Wendell Berry's voice, reading his own poetry.

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When you say wrestling things into existence, that's just what I do.

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I, I, it started with a spark of an idea saying do, is I'm not aware of sort of

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concept album based on Wendell Berry's poetry that would resonate with his fans.

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What would be the, all of the things that would have to be true

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in order for that thing to exist.

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And then you make them the list of the things that have to be true and

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it, and at some point once they're all true, then the thing exists.

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I believe that the hard work of creating

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is part of what makes it so fulfilling.

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In fact, everyone should have some sort of project going on in their lives.

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Something that draws hard work and creative energy out of them, and it

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doesn't have to be tied to a paycheck.

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But the truth is that, you know, I've worked

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with people, in various jobs in the past where they're, they, they seem very

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comfortable to enjoy the reliability of kind of punching in and out of work.

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And what it does is it serves the life that they love outside of work,

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where they are constantly connecting the dots that they've collected.

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They find that kind of fulfillment, gardening, exploring, hiking, you

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know, painting in an amateur way, whatever it is that makes them happy.

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And I, I feel like we were, we're all too quick to assume things about

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ourselves and about other people.

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And maybe that's one reason why I like having, a morning routine that

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sort of focuses on centering myself.

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Cause if I, think that I figured myself out, then I'm a little bit

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less worried about saying, well, am I creative or am I not creative?

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It's just more about, well, who am I?

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And what will I do with the minutes that I have today,

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given what DOT's I've collected?

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To get a sense of how fulfilling it is for

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us when we create, I want you to listen to Andrew's answer to my last question.

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When you look back at all you created, what do you hope to see?

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The timeless jokes are timeless for

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a reason when you think about the, you know, the joke the rich man dies

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and how much did he leave behind?

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Oh, all of it.

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Right.

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And I think maybe the older I get that perspective is liberating.

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I feel like because I have some guests as a choral composer, I'd like

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to think that I can write beautiful pieces that reflect some light in the

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world that the singer loves singing.

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The conductors love, conducting listeners, love listening to you

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because there's something true, timeless, and worthwhile in it.

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And that, you know, maybe I can.

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I can be helpful in that way.

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What I want to do every day from this point forward is just to be honest

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in my response to that internal sense of calling and purpose, which

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is to use those abilities for good purposes to make a contribution.

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And, you know, I think that's kind of what everybody.

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Once, this is what I want for myself and recruited a word.

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And so I want to keep myself honest and focused on the relationships that

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matter most, but also given that it's all going to disappear at some point, given

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that my name will wear off or whatever, Headstone I get, I'd like to use the

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unique package of gifts that I have to be helpful in the ways that I can.

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And I see a lot of people doing great work that I could never do.

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Cause it's not my thing.

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It's not my calling, but I'm just trying to find the things that I can do very

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best and make those contributions as I go.

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Like Andrew said, when we pass on, we

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really don't leave much behind, but the core value of creating something

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isn't about leaving a legacy.

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We create to cultivate good things in our lives and in the lives of other people.

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And when we do it right, what we create gives people reasons to

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smile or to connect with a loved one, or feel a sense of peace, or

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make something new of their own.

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We make the things we make so that someone's life can be better.

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I'm grateful to my friend, Andrew Maxfield for his time.

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And for his practical wisdom, I hope you picked up an idea for something new to

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try in your day to be more creative also.

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I'm sure you're interested in hearing his music.

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Well, he very graciously gave us permission to include some of it

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here at the end of the episode.

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So be sure to stick around after we're done with the closing credits.

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If you enjoy How to Help, please take a moment to give us a positive

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:

review in your podcast app.

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It really does help us to reach more listeners.

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:

Also be sure to subscribe so you can get future episodes automatically.

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:

Our next episode is all about a common ethical dilemma.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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What do you do when you see something going wrong?

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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But intervening is scary or dangerous.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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Bill O'Rourke is going to guide us through this situation.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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He's a coauthor with me on The Business Ethics Field Guide and has all kinds

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

:

of crazy stories and Sage advice you'll quickly see why bill is a beloved speaker

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:

at universities and businesses around the country to stay up to date with How to

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Help subscribe to our weekly newsletter.

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Each edition recommends high impact organizations and shares ideas for how

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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you can have more meaning in your work.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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You can find it@how-two-help.com, which is also linked in the show notes.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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We're grateful as always to have merit leadership as a sponsor and to

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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our production team, which included Cyndi Hall, Travis Stevenson,

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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yours truly, and Eric Robertson, who did the editing and the music.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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Our music comes from the Pleasant Pictures Music Club.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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If you want to use their music in your projects, you can find a link

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

:

and a discount code in the show notes.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

:

Finally, as always, thank you so much for listening.

Aaron Narration_Creativity_PC3_Descript:

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I'm Aaron Miller and this has been How to Help.

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